Stephen H. Webb
Talking with Mormons
A Catholic looks at a Calvinist looking at MormonismRichard Mouw, president of Fuller Theological Seminary, has two goals in this book. First, he wants evangelicals to stop demonizing Mormons. Second, he wants Mormons to be more Calvinist in their theology.
With the first goal—which will certainly provoke disagreement from some evangelicals—I am entirely in sympathy. I am convinced that we should take Mormons at their word and acknowledge the sincerity of their conviction that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior.
By now we should know better than to judge fellow followers of Jesus by the quality of their philosophical speculations rather than the fruits of their faith. Before long, we may hope, religious prejudices against Mormons will go the way of the once widespread prejudices against Roman Catholics. Mouw's book, written by an insider who can speak with sympathy to Mormon-despisers, will help to bring that about.
Mouw's second goal is a different story. That he—as a Calvinist—would like to see Mormonism become more Calvinistic is hardly surprising, but the two traditions make a very odd couple. The Mormon imagination is edgy and expansive while Calvinism is restrained and ascetic. Mormonism is a compendium of every 19th-century religious movement, including restorationism, apocalypticism, hermeticism, and even a healthy dose of liberalism. It is almost as catholic as the Roman Catholic Church—and that, for Mouw, is precisely its problem. After all, both Mormons and Catholics believe in the historical development of doctrine, divinization as the form of salvation, the need for centralized religious authority, the beauty of ritual, the connection between faith and love, and the existence of a heavenly Mother.
Calvinism, by contrast, is theologically lean and clean. Calvinism teaches "[t]hat God is sovereign and totally 'other' than the creation; that human beings are depraved sinners who are desperately in need of rescue by God; and that salvation is by grace alone." Mormons fail the Calvinist test because they believe that, as Mouw puts it, God and humans are "of the same species ontologically." Mormonism went wrong not with the Book of Mormon but with a flawed metaphysics.
Mouw argues that a "metaphysical gap" between God and us is essential to Christian faith and that Calvinism offers the best protection against any attempt to close that gap: "Judaism and Christianity have been united in their insistence that the Creator and creation—including God's human creatures—are divided by an unbridgeable 'being' gap." Mouw means that God's existence is so different from our own that it can be said that God is beyond being altogether. Put another way, God is so "other" that God cannot even be said "to be."
To me, that sounds more like Plato than Calvin. While it is true that the Church Fathers treated Plato as an honorary Christian, many theologians these days are arguing that we should reject the Platonic heritage of a dualism between spirit and matter, soul and body, and the transcendence and immanence of the divine. For these theologians, Mormons can be seen as metaphysical explorers of a post-Platonic Christianity.
At one point in this book, Mouw does identify an unexpected affinity between Mormonism and Calvinism: "it has often struck me," he writes, "that [the Mormon] view of their later scriptures is much like my own view of the Calvinist creedal documents that I subscribe to." This confession surprised me, and I was eager to hear him develop these parallels further. After all, Mouw regards the Heidelberg Catechism, the Belgic Confession, and the Synod of Dort as decisive "explanations and clarifications" of the Bible, which is how Mormons treat the Book of Mormon. Nevertheless, Mouw immediately retreats from his own insight: "If I come across someone—as I often do—who teaches something that conflicts with the system of thought set forth in these documents, I regard that teaching as less that fully biblical." Calvinism can certainly provide a solid framework for rigorous apologetics, but it can also function at times as one of the last refuges of old-fashioned fundamentalism.
Ironically, Mormonism was born from frustrations over this kind of aggressive and antagonistic argumentation. The young Joseph Smith despaired over the confusion and strife of the different denominations battling for his attention. Smith turned to visions and prophecy for new answers (just as today many Protestants are turning to Rome), but Mouw wants Mormons to return to the strict Calvinism that had already, in Smith's day, fragmented into a thousand competing pieces. Offering Calvinism to Mormons is like giving the victim of a dog bite the dog as compensation. Calvinism, for all of its intellectual achievements, can hardly be a source of healing for the fragmentation that it has helped to cause.
And yet for all of his Calvinistic crusading, Mouw ends his book on a warmly pietistic note. He recommends that evangelical theologians treat Mormonism the way Charles Hodge, the great 19th-century champion of Calvinist orthodoxy, treated Friedrich Schleiermacher, the father of liberal theology. Schleiermacher undercut the infallibility of the Bible, but Hodge admitted that his "personal faith in Christ was real." In the end, it is enough for Mouw that Mormons love Jesus: "People can have a defective theology about Christ while still putting their trust in the true Christ." With those words, Mouw sounds much more like an evangelical than a Calvinist (and demonstrates how far apart the two really are).
As a recent convert to Roman Catholicism, I think of both Mormonism and Calvinism as branches on the Christian tree, even though Calvinism, I admit, is closer to the trunk. The Mormon branch extends precariously far away, with countless twisting twigs cluttering its bark, while the Calvinist bough, straight and solid, looks like something I could climb out on without any fear. Nonetheless, I am happy that both of them bear good fruit and, by reaching out to the sun, return ample nourishment to the tree's roots.
Stephen H. Webb teaches theology at Wabash College. His most recent book is Jesus Christ, Eternal God: Heavenly Flesh and the Metaphysics of Matter (Oxford Univ. Press).
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blainejaysmith
Thank you for a thoughtful, intelligent review. I look forward to reading Dr. Mouw's book. Having recently read Jesus Christ, Eternal God, I enjoyed the continuity of thought between your comments here and the more fully 'fleshed' out detail of your book. I look forward to an aggressive dialogue developing among all Christian denominations (and Mormons) on the subject of Heavenly Flesh vs. Immaterial Divinity. It is long overdue. My Mormon beliefs continue to resonate in my heart and mind precisely because they resolve so many of the historical debates and dichotomies regarding the nature of God and man. Joseph Smith once taught "If you could see into heaven for 5 minutes, you would know more than if you read every book every written on the subject." The Prophet Joseph was given that privilege, and so were many others. The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price are all faithful records of those experiences and are worthy companions to the Holy Bible.
William Huget
Mormonism is a pseudo-Christian cult with a different jesus (2 Cor. 11:4) and false gospel (Gal. 1:6-9). They reject the faith once for all entrusted to the saints (Jude 3). They are objects of evangelism/apologetics, not a Christian denomination (2 Tim. 2:24-26). We should encourage dialogue, but not from the same position as Calvinist vs Arminian, but Christian vs cult/false religion (JW, Mormon, Christian Science, Islam, etc.).
John W. Morehead
I am still waiting for my copy of Mouw's new book but appreciate hearing your thoughts on the topic. We evangelicals need to hear the Catholic perspective in the dialogue between Mormons and evangelicals. Ecclesiology is a particularly interesting area missing from our conversations to which Catholics have much to contribute. My hope is that Catholic perspectives, and Mouw's book, will continue to inform the ongoing Mormon-evangelical dialogue in various venues, including through the Foundation for Religious Diplomacy with our Evangelical and Mormon chapters.
Nelson Chung
Well done review of Mouw's book. I'm always a lot more impressed with the Evangelical intelligentsia than with Evangelicals who comment on internet articles. I appreciate Mouw taking the opportunity to clear things up.
David Andrew
(Anthanasius), meaning that humans remain human and dependent on God even as they are taken up into the eternal presence of God. Mormon teachings have no such reflex. Mouw points this out when he highlights LDS doctrine saying God and humans are "of the same species ontologically." In fact, the LDS presumption of Eternal Progress rests on God, angels, and human beings having the same nature. The famous couplet coined by fifth LDS President Lorenzo Snow, "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become," sounds like the Ante-Nicean Fathers until you question whether God ever was anything other than God. If God had a beginning then he may be an angel, but cannot be God. Stephen Webb seems to have missed this entirely because his even his Roman Catholicism (and common sense) tell him humans are created and dependent only becoming like God through Christ, whereas God himself is eternal and self-existent (Deut 6.4; Is 46.9). Yes, theological terms matter but never assume equivalency.
David Andrew
That Stephen Webb has read Talking with Mormons I cannot doubt but alas he has fallen into the all too common misconception that when an LDS writer or leader uses a theological term that writer is using it in the same way. Take "divinization" for example. Mouw takes up the LDS teaching about Eternal Progression and critiques it because the Salt Lake church makes a category mistake in confusing the uncreated divine nature of God with the created nature of humans and angels. Mouw uses a term Webb recognizes from his Roman catechism which identifies the end point of salvation and sanctification as divination - that is that humans may become conformed to Christ's deity and partakers of the divine nature through faith in Jesus (1Cor 15.42-49; 2Peter 1.4). Webb probably reflexively knows the distinction the Church Fathers made on this point when they say God "became what we are in order to make us what he is himself" (Irenaeus), or "became man so that men might become gods" -- cont.
Carl Peterson
Mormons are not Christians like Gnostics were not Christians. The Bible is 100% clear about the divide between the Creator God and the created man. There is no need to go to Calvin or Plato. Just read the end of Job or better yet the first few chapters of Genesis. All throughout the Bible there is a clear dualism between the two. When the created question God, he often states in basic terms "who are you the created to questions me who created you?" Some might not like this but that is what the Bible plainly teaches. Mormons believe that we can become God. Not divinization as taught by the early fathers who believed in becoming gods through Christ by grace. no the Mormons teach that the godo mormon men can actually becoming God. That is a huge and massive difference between Mormonism and deification taught by Athanasius and Greagory of Nazianzus. I believe the author of this review needs to look again at the early church fathers before making comparisons that are not factual. I have read many of the church fathers and find big differences between them and Mormonism.
Ben
A very sympathetic and (in contrast to the comments) informed reading. Thank you.
David Montague
If evangelicals accept Mormons as "one of us," the un-historical fable (fiction!) which the Book of Mormon will splash onto the New Testament, and taint Christianity as just another fable. Mormons, like many other fringe groups, may--despite their official doctrine--be Christians, but--in my view-- it's despite their religion and its book, not because of it.
Melody Faris
YES! (that is, yes, Don!)
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